More on Smalltalk vs. Java
I posted earlier on a cls thread discussing Smalltalk, Java, and productivity. Alan Knight weighed in:
As I recall, although I heard the quote in a different context, he was specifically referring to working in VA/Java, which is as close to a Smalltalk environment as you can get in Java.A couple of other celebrity testimonials grin
I firmly believe that there are two types of developers: Smalltalk programmers and everyone that wasn't lucky enough to be a Smalltalk programmer. Smalltalk is my language of choice because it is pure OO - you have objects and you send them messages, that is all. In Smalltalk, even classes are objects. Scott Ambler, author of a great many technology books (and a keynote speaker at ST Solutions 2003). This bit goes on at some length.
Although it's now a long time since I did anything with it, I nominate Smalltalk, I still haven't come across anything quite like it for being able to transfer thoughts into computer code. It's not just the language: It's the wonderful browser environment, the libraries, and the culture of writing clear, well-designed code as quickly as anything else can crank out spaghetti. When the participants at JavaOne were extolling how Java was so much more productive than anything else, I needed a brown paper bag. Oh well, back to sorting out my classpaths... Martin Fowler , (Software Development Magazine , Jan 2001)
So, Bob Martin's prediction for this decade: Keep an eye on languages like Python, Ruby, and Smalltalk. They are likely to become extremely important. Robert Martin, of ObjectMentor, one of the leading Agile/XP training companies.
"My absolute favourite language is Smalltalk." Grady Booch Software, Development Magazine, Sept 2002. (Of course, Grady immediately follows this with "I only wish it had survived". Fortunately, rumours of our death are greatly exaggerated).
See also Ed Klimas' site, where Ed Klimas, who does a lot of work with function point measurement on projects his company is involved with, has a quick summary.
More good stuff. There seems to be a pattern here....
Comments
Yes, and...
[Alex Peake] May 16, 2003 16:19:18.030
Sorry to repeat this, and... Smalltalk is incomplete for developing good typical business applications. Each vendor has a different set of things missing. For example, only fairly primitive UIs can be built in VW (without going into the UI building business!).
Re: Yes, and...
[James Robertson] May 16, 2003 16:43:49.427
Comment on Yes, and... by James Robertson
Only primitive GUI's can be built in VisualWorks? Hmm. What was the last version of VisualWorks you tried out? Have you looked at either BottomFeeder or TypeLess? Both are fairlyrich clients; I'm not entirely certain where this critique comes from. Is the VW GUI perfect? Heck no, and in fact, we are in the midst of a rather major upgrade to it. But it's hardly primitive. Download the latest (7.1) NC and have a look.
VW and UI
[Alex Peake] May 16, 2003 19:25:48.192
Does VW have, for example, multi-column dropdowns (labelled)? Let alone editable grids with multi-column dropdowns within the cells, bound to a set of records returned from a database? What about dates selectable from drop-down calenders? All this has been available for many years in VB and others. Until VW supports external visual components it will always be behind in this respect. (BTW, I have downloaded VW7.1 NC)
Re: VW and UI
[Michael Lucas-Smith] May 16, 2003 20:47:47.873
Comment on VW and UI by Michael Lucas-Smith
"Does VW have, for example, multi-column dropdowns (labelled)? Let alone editable grids with multi-column dropdowns within the cells, bound to a set of records returned from a database? What about dates selectable from drop-down calenders? All this has been available for many years in VB and others. Until VW supports external visual components it will always be behind in this respect."
Yeah.. and what good is that going to do me when I run it on Linux? or when I take my image over to my friends house who has a mac? - external visual components lock you into Windows. Sure - these sorts of widgets would be a really nice thing to have (mind you, have you ever seen a multicolumn dropdownlist in MacOSX?.. me either. Why? Not -every- widget Microsoft invents is a good idea!), but they have to be made in the right way. A cross platform way.
VW & UI
[Alex Peake] May 16, 2003 21:43:18.584
We operate in different worlds, that's all. I live in the world of corporate applications where Windows on the desktop is a given. Also these user interface elements are not Microsoft's, but third party vendors. IMHO they create an improved User Interaction.