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Industry Misinterpretations 80: Is Software Practice Advancing?

March 22, 2008 16:39:16.626

This podcast is taken from the panel discussion at SPA2008: "Is Software Practice Advancing?" The panel was moderated by John Daniels, and started with a small group. After about 20 minutes, they asked volunteers from the audience to join by submitting names to a random pick - Peter Deutsch got picked first, and I followed a few minutes later. I'll also have video from this panel later on; I have to get it saved down to a reasonable size first.

It was a fun conversation, with the debate topic centered on whether things have improved in terms of software practices over the last 15 years. There was a fair amount of skepticism on the panel, and it was a lively discussion.

As always, please send feedback to smalltalkpodcasts@cincom.com - or visit us on Facebook or Ning. You can subscribe in iTunes, and please try and cast a vote for the podcast over at Podcast Alley. One caveat about this edition; it's long, about 74 minutes. I usually keep the episodes shorter than that, but I didn't want to break this panel discussion into parts.

Enclosures:
[http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/audio/2008/industry_misinterpretations80.mp3 ( Size: 26848468 )]

Comments

Regarding podcast #78

[Thomas Gagne] March 24, 2008 15:36:32.301

Regarding pocast #78, I want to first say I would have added my comment to it, but it appears comments are closed.

Regardless, the reason I think Smalltalk programmers may be dependent on vendors more so than other languages is the language is splintered by vendor.  What I write for VW won't run unmodified by GNU, VA, or Squeak.  There's no concept of a portable "library" that will work in each--unless I write it in C.  And even there, the way each vendor's Smalltalk calls-out to C is different.

If my single effort was to have benefits multipled by the entire community and not just my flavor I suspect there may be more and more successful community efforts.  Because of the multiple implementations, I think Smalltalk sometimes hamstrung.

Also, in two items I contributed personally, VW later came out with different implementations without any reference to what I had done.  VW's were independently developed and owed nothing to me, but what VW did was different enough that code depending on my take on a problem was incompatible with what VW came up with.  Specifically, my parcel for using standard IO and Store for Sybase.  The latter item, I think, was another community contribution, but it was made available after my own, was unsupported by VW, but distributed. 

The effect on my decision to contribute to the community then becomes, why bother if what I do will be re-implemented by VW or discarded for something else?  I may as well either wait for VW to do something or keep my inventions to myself rather than package them up to be generically installed by others.

To get rid of #first, #second, #third or #at:1, #at:2...

[Thomas Gagne] March 25, 2008 8:11:30.697

Regarding podcast #79 (March 17--not that long ago but comments closed), the cast was talking about code that looks at certain positions of an sequenced collection using either #first, #last, and wondering why not add #second, #third, .. #thirteenth, etc.

I've used #second, #third, and #fourth myself grabbing result sets from a database connection before.  I believe it's easier and more "telling" than creating a stream on the results sets and using #next, #next, #next, #next..

Someone asked what an alternative might be, and C's scanf came to mind.  We already have string parameter substitution to build strings, but that idea might be worth expanding to insert object into arrays (on a more general level) or to remove things from them.

Regarding the practice of software, a quote from Alan Kay

[Thomas Gagne] March 25, 2008 9:25:07.530

From his Early History of Smalltalk:

"A twentieth century problem is that technology has become too "easy". When it was hard to do anything whether good or bad, enough time was taken so that the result was usually good. Now we can make things almost trivially, especially in software, but most of the designs are trivial as well. This is inverse vandalism: the making of things because you can. Couple this to even less sophisticated buyers and you have generated an exploitation marketplace similar to that set up for teenagers."

There may be many programmers who don't know what they're doing, but we should be consoled that many of them aren't working on projects that require they know what they're doing.  What we should be concerned about is that a lot of time and money is being spent on software vandalism that might be better spent on more productive pursuits.

 

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